Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Evan Shout from the Truth About Ag podcast, Maverick Ag and of course Farmer coach, among other projects as well, joins me this week to talk all things farm financials. Let's get into it. Episode 119 coming at you right now.
Hey folks, welcome to the what the Futures podcast, your quick guide to better farming decisions.
All right folks, welcome into episode 119 of course recorded each and every week in the UPL studio. Don't forget about the SJHL playoffs. The last I checked, Flynn Flawn up a couple of games here in the final. Of course upl a proud sponsor of those SJ SJHL hockey playoffs. And don't forget about a product like Telluron brand spanking new fungicide from the good people over at upl. Can use, be can be used, pardon me, on cereals, pulses, just about anything, Canola as well. So reach out to your local retail. They'll guide you in the right direction, get you the info you need on Teleron. So I'm off on holidays this week folks and I thought with the war going on in the Middle east, it might be tricky for me to pre record some market advice or market perspective as I record even this short segment here. The Strait of Hormuz is likely closed, might be open, depends on when you refresh your social media or the latest articles. But it's tricky out there folks.
I'm assuming we're gonna start the week here. We have started the week with a little spark, a little upside, but we'll see. I think wheat markets if I'm going to try to predict here the next I'm recording this on the weekend. This week ahead I think you'll have fun Marketing Week across Western Canada.
So things a little bit different here this week. I've got Evan Shout with, well the Truth About Ag podcast. Certainly one that many of you are familiar with and if you aren't, go check it out. They cover a lot of big great topics when it comes to agriculture and Canadian agriculture specifically.
Of course Evan is part of, you know, started Maverick Ag from that started the farmer Coach program. So candid conversation between myself and Evan. I fire away with a pile of different questions and he fires right back with a bunch of answers. So I think the most intriguing one, you know, from a crop marketing guy like myself is what is the financial impact or the difference that you see in a farm making, you know, some great or better crop marketing decisions Verse versus not. Does that quantify to what number is that?
Evan gives me a pretty specific answer towards the second half of the interview. There so stay tuned for that one. I hope you guys enjoy this, folks. I will be back.
Well, you won't even miss me because I got content coming out the whole time. But I'll be back in May with some fresh perspectives here as well. But don't worry, next week you're going to see my version of a bit of a market outlook that I've been presenting to many farmers here across the prairies over the last couple months. So that's coming at you here next week. But anyways, we'll park that. Let's get into it with Evan Shout from the Truth About Ag podcast.
All right, folks, I've got Evan Shout joining me from, well, from Maverick Egg, from Farmer Coach, from Public Speaking,
[00:03:43] Speaker B: and,
[00:03:44] Speaker A: and the Truth About Egg. Right, The Truth About Egg podcast. So welcome to the show, Evan.
[00:03:49] Speaker B: Thank you, Ryan. Yeah, I tend to get around these days, let's put it that way.
[00:03:52] Speaker A: So is travel, is that something that you, that you drives. You like, are you, do you like to get across the country and like, see a bunch of people?
[00:04:00] Speaker B: Is that if you'd asked me five years ago, I'd have told you not a chance. I'm, I'm a pretty big introvert, if anybody knows me, knew me growing up. I, I like my quiet time. But to be fair, if I, if I get up in front of a room and I call it forced extroversion, I guess you could say I, I love being up at the front of the room. I love talking to producers, love talking to industry. So it kind of fell into my lap that I, that I took a lot of what Christian was doing and just ran with it. So.
[00:04:24] Speaker A: Fair enough. My, my wife calls me the most extroverted introvert that she knows. So I like getting in front of a crowd, too. Now, I, I hated it forever, but, but I don't mind it anymore. Cool, man. Well, you've got a lot of different, different things going on. And I want to, I want to start off with what I think is a cool moment.
And so let's go back to, to the end of February for, for just a second. So obviously I chat with a lot of growers, a lot of farmers in, in Farmer Coach, you know, in that program.
And we get a brand spanking new conflict, a war in the Middle East. And on that Monday, correct me if I'm wrong, but Farmer Coach kicks off a session and there's a bunch of farmers together that day. Like, walk me through that a bit.
[00:05:17] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, it's, I'd love to tell you that Policy is not always on the issues list. But, but it is. And I mean that's been 24 months of up and down, let's call it. But yeah, it is interesting when you get in there and something like that's happened pretty much over a weekend and we all know what happens is we go from, you know, we're pretty pessimistic, not much money to be made in any of the markets. And then all of a sudden, oh, things look cheery, the panic is over and I'm being a little sarcastic, but that's honestly what happened. The switch got turned and all of a sudden we could make money and back to square one. Planning again, essentially having those farmers like
[00:05:55] Speaker A: kind of go through that together. Was there a lot of like side conversation going on or strategy being discussed openly or ideas on what was going to like develop? Or was it pretty calm, cool, collected? We have the agenda, we're just gonna stick to it and, and move on with, with the sessions?
[00:06:13] Speaker B: Oh no, most, most know me well enough that the agenda is there for about five seconds and then you know, what's, what's impacting guys that day. So it's, you get both sides right? Like we, we all bought fertilizer at the right time, although when we bought it we thought we were nuts and all of a sudden we hadn't sold anything and we thought, oh my God, we're getting close to seeding when I haven't priced anything. And all of a sudden here we are, best decision ever, right? So yeah, call it agriculture, call it what you want, but it is interesting when you can get 20 really progressive guys or 20 or 30 progressive growth minded guys in a room and all of a sudden the strategy starts talking and I'd like to say that I'm more a part of it than anything, but I'm not. Like they, they're the ones driving the conversations, they're the ones driving the topics. And honestly, if there's something that we want to run with that day and it, it isn't in the workbooks or it isn't kind of what I had in mind, we just go. Because that's, that's what guys are there for. They're there to take what's happening today, figure out the strategy around it and see what other guys are doing and what mistakes guys are making. Right.
[00:07:14] Speaker A: I also got excited about price and, and margin and opportunity when the event started to unfold and. But there's also a segment of folks out there that you know, that were turned a bit more, you know, pessimistic in that environment. And obviously there's, there's two sides to the coin here on, on how you were positioned and stuff like that. But I look at events like conflict and war stuff being at least short term bullish and supportive prices like, am I out to lunch? Was there two different schools of farms out there or.
[00:07:47] Speaker B: I think it had been so down and dismal going into there. I mean, you can look back at our podcast from January, February, and it was, you know, there's only one place to make money and it's Canola.
[00:07:56] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:07:56] Speaker B: And, and I'm not saying that's changed a lot. I think we're still going to see a massive amount of Canola acres, but at the same time, all of a sudden wheat, wheat's a break even or more so. Guys, Guys, I think see that the other one is for the guys that sit in that room. They're there to be optimistic. Like, they're there to look for strategies, ways to fix, you know, fix or make their enterprises better.
So they're always on that, you know, this is an opportunity. How do we take advantage? And the funny part is I got guys who are in there from certain areas of the province that haven't grown crops in five or six years. So for them, yeah, I'd love to go and fix half my crop today, but I don't trust the yield potential. So those are the discussions you have is what mechanisms are in place, where they, they might be able to see some strategy, even though they're a little bit, let's call it bearish on, on grain right now.
[00:08:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I struggle. I struggle. You know, you put stuff up publicly every week, all the time. Right. And I, I struggle too. Like I'm staring out my window. You know, my kids are making snowmen today, right? Oh yeah. And. But there's a. Folks that are going to listen to this saying, man, like, it's been so dry here, like, we're just waiting for some moisture. So, you know, fingers crossed, my weather forecasters, I don't know, like, we'll see, but it looks promising. So.
[00:09:10] Speaker B: Yeah. And I mean, some guys, they're obviously got the data and they got the weather stations and I mean, yeah, some guys are sitting on a lot of moisture. If I go up north of Tisdale right now, I'm pretty sure they'd love for things to stop snowing to be fair.
[00:09:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:23] Speaker B: And then if I go south of Boost you, I mean, one of our employees, Todd Andrews here he was, thought he'd be in the field on Friday. So you're getting a big extent in that room at one time, and that's not including the guys from Ontario that are there and the guys from the US that are there. Like, you're getting a pretty broad range of guys sitting in that room.
[00:09:41] Speaker A: What we do need is we do need an extended planting window to get the fertilizer to farm at the right times here this year. So we'll, we'll take it. Right? Everyone's chipping in by extending the, the planting window. So.
[00:09:53] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:09:54] Speaker A: When a farm starts, like in Farmer coach, is there like an aha moment or something that really stands out, like a theme that, that pops up right away, that they're like, man, this is, this is what's been bugging me. Or this is what my, my issue is. And it, I can see clarity now. Is there one kind of thing that, that happens or is it just a variety of things?
[00:10:16] Speaker B: I think the biggest thing, Ryan, to be, to be honest, is that when I, even when I started it, I thought it was a, you know, was guys that were coming to be better on the profit side. And I'm, I'm a CPA by trade, so I always went to the numbers. But what surprised me is the majority of guys in those first couple years, they wanted more time. Like, they, they weren't looking for that next dollar. They were doing. They were well established farms. They were, they were doing everything that they thought was exactly what they should be and they were making good money.
It was, they'd missed out on family events or they were working 3,000 hours. So even for myself, I think the aha moment for a lot of guys is that the program's not built around teaching you how to make more money or it'll give you those things and you can apply them to your farm however you want. But what really shone through is that the guys were trying to find more time. They were trying to buy back their time, to be honest.
And so HR all of a sudden becomes a big, significant discussion and then you get into that CEO role of what, what am I supposed to be doing? Like, am I supposed to be sitting in a tractor cab 24 hours a day? Or am I supposed to be running the strategy and the marketing and the procurement? And I think that's probably what surprises guys the most when they start is it, it might be me at the front CPA teaching you numbers, but it, it, that's not the discussions. The discussions are that CEO C suite. I'm, I'm running my farm, but I Want to run it better. And who. And how do I do that?
[00:11:38] Speaker A: It almost interesting where like your fun day on the farm or your day off might be the day you get to go drive the tractor. Right?
[00:11:45] Speaker B: Like, oh yeah.
[00:11:47] Speaker A: Not, not I have to do it, but when can I do it? Right? Yeah, yeah.
[00:11:51] Speaker B: And that free, honestly, that freedom of calendar is what guys are looking for. And, and that's, that's the funny part is everybody thinks I'm trying to get him out of the cab and I'm like, no, no, I. If you want to be in the cab, by all means, but I want you to be a choice. Not that you have to be.
[00:12:04] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So I'm sure this is documented somewhere already. But why farmer coach? Like where did this idea kind of come from?
[00:12:16] Speaker B: Honestly? We talked about it in 2019 as a, as a revenue stream, let's call it. We knew the consulting was kind of where we were going to move. But we also have been part of Strategic Coach, which is an entrepreneur program, both Christian and I. It was actually part of when I came across, I had to go do it as a start to knock the Kool Aid out of me, I guess you could say.
But what we saw there was we saw a lot of strong entrepreneurs, not agriculture, but across all different industries. And they got together and they had those discussions and that was probably the leading indicator.
Then obviously the pandemic hit. We wasn't the right time to shift into a in person session.
[00:12:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:53] Speaker B: And then all of a sudden John Deere had us go down to the US and had Christian go down and they wanted us, wanted him to sit in front of a few producers and say, here's, here's what we see the next generation of farms going to be. And for us, I'd rather bring them to us and why don't you send some producers up here and they can sit in with us and we'll just, we'll create the program ourselves.
And that was kind of the starting, honestly. That was in June and November. We'd launched and we had 80 producers, two cohorts ready to go. And that's where it started.
[00:13:23] Speaker A: Has it evolved much from it, from, you know, you learn every time you put something on. But has it evolved much since you started? Is there anything that's changed drastically?
[00:13:32] Speaker B: I think off the start we thought it was going to be more scheduled, rigid, I guess you could say. So we had the workbooks we had. We want to touch on this this time, we want to go here next time. And kind of as I alluded to at the start it is turned into, you know, what's, what's the pressing matters of today. So yes, there's still an agenda, but if I get to the agenda, great. If I don't and we go down a few rabbit holes that are going to help them in other spots we go, yeah, and I think that's part of it. The other one is we started pretty heavy Saskatchewan off the start and now you're getting, you know, I've got a cohort from Ontario that comes out. I've got eight or nine out of the US that come up and, and you start hearing the, those stories no different than you start seeing what across the border changes and how they, how they view some of the policies that we have and the policies that they have. And it, it starts the conversation of, you know, we're still just all farmers. Right. And yes, there's different mechanics that we work under, but in the end, profitability, family, legacy, tie, like they're all the same problems.
[00:14:30] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. All right, cool. I want to switch gears now to Maverick Ag a little bit. So like just run me through it real quick of what Mavericks, I guess. What are you guys doing Monday to Friday over at Maverick? Let's start with that.
[00:14:44] Speaker B: Well, it, it started as a time consumption, to be fair. When I took the job at hgv, we thought CFO was a full time role. And I mean, Christian's a cpa. He already had it running pretty good to be fair. So then I brought on a couple clients that I used to have when I was an accountant and they were a little annoyed that I left public accounting and I said, well, come over and we'll see what this could be. So it started as kind of, I have no idea what it's going to be. Once we got in the air, we started learning how to fly. So then it turned into projections, banking arrangement, like all the financial stuff because obviously that was my wheelhouse. And then over the last five years it's turned into, I mean anything from setting up HR policies to doing SOPs and procedures. And so I've, I've got a good staff under me now that, that is really good. At the financial side, I got a couple bankers that, you know, between them's 50 plus years in the banking industry. And I got a new cto, Taylor Phillips, who says he knows you. He's met you when you were at the fbn, I think.
[00:15:40] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:15:40] Speaker B: And he's running the tech side for us and doing some of that for farms. So I mean we've kind of turned into a full service where the finance. Yes, it's still there. It's probably still our biggest wheelhouse. But now I spend majority of my days talking about people management and processes and, and it ties into succession and other things. But it's, it's kind of that EOS entrepreneurial operating system that we, we flow under to be, to be open.
[00:16:05] Speaker A: Cool. I've, I've got a Taylor story for in a little bit here, but a very unique Taylor story.
But do you find like in this space that the CFO role comes with people make some false like assumptions about the CFO role? Like I think, you know, people maybe get a bit guarded off the hop, like what, what are we talking about here? But is like what's a common misconception?
[00:16:32] Speaker B: What I think the biggest misconception that we've had over the years was that it's, it's closely tied to accounting and bookkeeping and that's the farthest jump. So if you look at the true CFO role, it's, it's all strategy. It's, you know, financial strategy, debt management, leverage, risk management.
And I think off the start, guys believe it's just, you know, an extension from the bookkeeping. All of a sudden. Yeah, we get our numbers together.
So do you do our tax return? It's like, no, no, this is, this, this isn't accounting. This is managerial accounting, which is. I spent, I spent 10 years at an accounting firm. Looking back, I get to spend Nighttime now looking 12, 18, 24, 10 years ahead. I think a lot of the misconception is just what the role is to be fair. And yeah, from that CFO side, we spend more time talking about, you know, what, what's going to happen in 12 months, 24 months. You know, we got loans coming due in five years. What's the capital plan like? All of our time is spent in the future, which is good and bad. I used to be able to a financial statement done and feel like I did something in a day and now most of my time is spent five years in the future. So I'll, I'll let you know in five years if I feel like I accomplished anything. But it is a different beast than most think it is to be fair.
[00:17:43] Speaker A: All right, cool. So I'm going to do my quick Taylor story and then we'll keep moving here. But so, so I, I've pitched a lot of farmers crop marketing in my career. All right. And so some way, somehow I don't know who organizes this. If Taylor organizes it Obviously. But I get invited to. I'm going to Regina. Flying to Regina. This is pre 2020. I'm flying to Regina. I'm doing, like, a tour of southern Saskatchewan.
And one of my. My first day is. Is to meet with Taylor and pitch crop marketing, or crop marketing to one of his large farms. Like, when a client that he had.
And so I'm like, yeah, that's normal. Okay. I get to the coffee shop and I don't know, like, somebody walks out. As I'm walking in, I'm like, I'm pretty sure that was a crowd marketing person. I can't remember who that is, but I'm pretty sure that's a crowd marketing person. Okay, so we sit down, we have coffee, and I'm like, doing the pitch. And then I look at, like an hour later, I look at the corner of my eye and there's another crop marketing guy coming. Derek squares coming. And I'm like, are you interested? Like, are we all pitching today? And he's like, oh, yeah, you guys are all pitching against each other right now. I was like, all right. I didn't get it. I did not get it. So I don't know what I did wrong, but I didn't get it. And Derek did. That was Derek's client. And Derek's a good dude, so here's what it is. But anyway, Taylor was on point, man. He had us all lined up, and I don't know how many they did. I think it was four or five, but it was cool.
[00:19:17] Speaker B: Yeah. When I brought on a cto, I didn't really understand quite what Taylor was. And then, to be fair, he's. He's turned into more strategy. And, you know, he's. He's looking further out than even I am right now. So he.
He's been a big asset to the team.
[00:19:30] Speaker A: So I want to talk now about. About the future stuff. And then I want to come back into. Into some crop marketing stuff too. But see, like, I find in. In this space and, well, in crop marketing, like, I look back, I'm looking back all the time, right? If I'm looking at a chart, it's old news, right? I find that in ag, we look back a lot. We're always looking back, referencing past years, past events, past moments. How hard is it, or was it for you to get out of that and look forward? Or were you always naturally looking forward?
[00:20:02] Speaker B: Oh, no, there. There's a lot of Kool Aid. I'm not going to lie. 10, 10 years in public accounting had me pretty restricted at black and white. And so you're correct. I spent most of my career looking backwards and using those to assess businesses. And then all of a sudden my career took a full 180, and I was looking forward to try and figure out what's coming next. And.
And I'm not a quick start by any means when it comes to the Colby Index. So for me, that was probably the hardest shift. And. And I think that's where Strategic Coach came in and why Christian knew I. I probably needed to go there was to just get my head the right direction.
And then once you start thinking about the future, then. Then honestly, it's hard to sleep at night because then you're guessing what's coming next. And, And I think that's been the biggest shift is I don't have the raw data to prove that I'm right on anything I say anymore because it hasn't happened yet.
[00:20:50] Speaker A: Coming.
[00:20:50] Speaker B: Yeah, it's coming.
So, yeah, I can look out and say I think interest rates are going here and I think we should risk mitigate this way, but I could be 100 wrong. And I know one of your former guests, Trent Claremon, back, and I talk quite a bit, and the land numbers, I'm. I'm totally different than where he is. But both of us could be right or both of us could be wrong. Like, it's. It's not something that's easily remedied because you are playing in the unknown. But there is. There is mitigating factors. It's just, it is a total mindset shift when you're looking forward and all of them are estimates and all of them are projections. And all of a sudden on a Friday, canola and wheat, everything looks bad. And then on a Monday, I'm hosting a course and everything's just turned right around and all of a sudden we're making money again. So it's.
In agriculture especially, looking forward is a really hard job.
[00:21:37] Speaker A: Do you find, like. Do you kind of have like a network of forward thinkers? Not necessarily in agriculture, but folks that, you know, are. Are looking forward and looking beyond and, and kind of have that. Not support, but maybe. Maybe support, maybe inspiration, maybe nudge to keep looking forward?
[00:21:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I think. I mean, if I look back at the mentors I had even at my time in public accounting, I mean, Dean Klippenstein and Christian and, and, you know, some of the guys at tpap, Whitman and them like it. I. I've had some really strong mentors through along the way, and there's some big thinkers and they're, some of these guys created the struct in agriculture. So I'll thank them for a lot of it of that side.
The big one to me, Ryan, is just it, it's an interesting industry to be in at all times, so guys can tell me things that are going to happen are not going to happen. And, and we could be 100 right or 100 wrong. So it's, it's an interesting factor.
The biggest one is it's still mindset. The, the biggest thing is you're gonna, the between the ears is where the biggest change in agriculture is. And it's the biggest gap between the really good farms and the, the ones who might not be able to make it.
It's between the ears.
[00:22:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah, cool. I, I, I, I do want to talk, I don't know what the numbers are, but you have like three levels or, or it's like 2%, 20%, 80. 80%. I can't remember what it is, but there's like some, I don't know. You can explain, I'll let you explain it, but what am I talking about here?
[00:23:10] Speaker B: Yeah, so I mean, we used to say there's the top 20, bottom 80, and that's, that's how they differentiated farms. And it was, it wasn't necessarily based on scale, to be fair. It was based on revenue, profitability. There's just, there was a top 20% that really was different and, and call that entrepreneurism. I, I don't actually have the answer to that. I just know the numbers now what we found is in the last decade, there is, out of that 20, we have another 2% that are just, they're doing things that are incredible. Some are going to look and say that's, you know, acres and scale and opportunity. But then we've got guys who are, you know, diversified and they're starting other companies and they're, they're not just farmers anymore. And I think that was the big shift. And I mean, we always use the, we always use the example McDonald's. Right. Everybody thinks they make money on food. No, they make money on real estate.
[00:23:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:57] Speaker B: And when you start looking at that, I got farms who, yeah, they're farmers.
Farm is probably the least profitable enterprise they run. It's all the other diversified, diversified revenue streams that are actually doing the, the heavy lifting.
[00:24:12] Speaker A: Yeah. And you're not just talking about crop mix, growing different crops. Right. You're talking about different, different businesses or. Yeah, yeah.
[00:24:20] Speaker B: And, and not even agriculture businesses. I mean, I got guys that, you see them, they're running car dealerships or they're doing venture capital or oil and gas. Like, there's, there's just a subset of the industry that is, you know, they're those true entrepreneurs, and there's a lot of risk there too, don't get me wrong. But they have really taken what they have and the equity and stuff in the farm and used it to grow exponentially.
[00:24:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah. Is.
Is there any specific, like, quality or, or trait that. That 2% kind of have, like, courage to take on risk or, or appetite or curiosity? Is there anything that kind of stands out?
[00:25:00] Speaker B: I, I probably call it addiction. And, and I mean, my business partner will be the first one to tell you he's addicted to the game. That that's part of the reason I left public accounting to come here is I'll be retired well before he is. And, and it's because he's having fun. And I think, I think that's the big one is I see when I deal with some of these guys, it's an addiction to the game. So they, they love agriculture, but they love growth, they love, they love businesses, they love enterprise, and they just, they're not in it for the money. Like, I, I can tell you right now, most of the farms I work with could retire tomorrow and ride off into the sunset pretty happy.
[00:25:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:36] Speaker B: And, and I don't think they ever will because that's not, that's not in the cards. And for them, it's, it's just one big, one big puzzle and they love solving puzzles.
[00:25:45] Speaker A: Yep. No, great, great comment for sure. I, like, I find I get a little bit skewed as well, like certain topics or themes that come out.
I feel like I work with a very special group of, of growers that are, you know, I'm thinking you see this in Farmer Coach and, and Maverick as well. You kind of deal with a certain group and some things that upset other parts of, of agriculture don't register within that group or, or, you know, thinking in the moves they're making. I think I talked about fall of 2027 more than anything else this week. You know, like, this 2026 almost feels like old news. Right. Like, anyways, and. Yeah, but it's just sometimes, like, I have to, like, come back and be like, oh, man, like, there's, there's a whole, it's not right or wrong. There's just a whole range of, of things going on in the business out there, and sometimes I get caught in my little, you know, cohort of farms and we're all thinking similar things, but. Yeah.
[00:26:45] Speaker B: Yeah. And I find it. It's motivational for me as well. Like, I. I can do a whole bunch where it's, you know, we're focusing on 26. What's the next move? What's the next, you know, cost cuts or what are we, you know, what are we marketing. But then I get in a group with a few guys, and we're talking big picture possibilities that are out 2 to 5 to 10 years. And, you know, they're unbelievable today. But I also know that things we said three years ago were unbelievable, and we've achieved them and moved further. So it's.
It's an interesting dynamic. These guys, and they don't believe anything's not possible. So that. That's probably the most motivating is they'll say stuff. But I'm like, that is so far outside the box. I just don't see it. But for some reason, I believe it. Let's put it that way.
[00:27:25] Speaker A: Let's write that one down and come back.
[00:27:26] Speaker B: Let's write that one down.
[00:27:28] Speaker A: So I want to turn. I want to shift gears to some crop marketing stuff right now. So I once sat in a meeting with. And I don't want to pick on accountants. All right? And I don't want to pick on accountants.
[00:27:39] Speaker B: You can pick on accounts. I'm recovering.
[00:27:41] Speaker A: I sat in a meeting, and the accountants are looking at numbers, and the price of canola was 12 bucks.
And they just looked at the farm. I'm sitting there. The farm is paying me as their crop marketing consultant. But the accountants just sat there and they're like, it's $12. You've achieved your. These amount of bushels. You are profitable by just a thin margin. Sell everything.
And. And I was sitting there and I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, guys, easy. Let's. Let's pump the brakes here. Like, there's some factors that can influence this. Blah, blah, blah.
That was in the winter 2019. 2020 is when that conversation happened. And then the way we went. Now, of course, I didn't have covet on my radars as anything, but anyways, away we went. I guess it is black and white sometimes for some folks, but I just thought that was a really, really interesting meeting. And I was just shaking my head like, holy smokes. There's more to crop marketing than just the. That. That profit line. But. Yeah. What's your comment on that?
[00:28:45] Speaker B: Oh, I'm. I'm in the same boat as you are, Ryan. And. And don't get me wrong. I Was. I was probably in that boat, you know, 10 years ago. I see it on most sides. I even see it on the insurance side. Like I do a lot of. A lot of the private insurance and the crop insurance, and I run assessments and analysis and they treat things as black and white and they're not. I mean, every farm's got a different balance sheet, which I know in insurance, most people just look at the income statement and say, here's what we're insuring.
No, no, the balance sheet is what I care about. The debt service, the working capital. I mean, there's so many more factors. And. And I think that's kind of where you're. Ludin is on the crop marketing side. It's great to say, oh, yeah, we're in a slight profit. Let's. Let's sell it all. Well, no, that's. That's not a plan. That's not a strategy. It's.
[00:29:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:27] Speaker B: You know, and I think it goes back to. I spoken. I spoke in the U.S. you know, probably three months ago, and I asked him what, you know, a good price for canola was, and they threw out a number, obviously US number, which way? Way lower than ours, but it can be.
[00:29:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:42] Speaker B: And I said, well, how do we know that? Because earlier they'd all told me they didn't even know. They didn't have a cruel financial statements. You think that's a good number? You have no idea. So. So I think what it comes down to is a. What's the cost of production? What's the return we're happy with today and what's the future return that we need in order to keep going? And that's where I see the marketing side. And I'm not a skilled marketer by any means. Ryan, you. You would school me on this 10 times out of 10.
But for me, it's that comfort zone of I know I'm in profit here, but I also know there's upside. That's potential. How do we. How do we build the strategy so that we can play in both. And the other one is most of my farms aren't actually selling for price anymore. They're selling for. I need to move this much grain in order to be able to do it. I need cash flow in this month, and if the price isn't good there, I'll buy it back and play the markets. So it's. It's that theory of it's no longer just best price that on our farm, best price is probably third on the list. We know we need to Move so much grain per month. So we know we need to sell into these months. We know cash flow is going to be tight. We need to sell into these months.
Then comes the pricing.
[00:30:49] Speaker A: My career, I've worked with farms and the goal is the same like you want to make the most amount of money you can, but people would be like, well, how much do you hold till spring? Or blah, blah, blah, or what's your pace? And I'm like, well that's kind of depends with you. Like farm. If you, if you want to leave for Arizona December 1st and have all your crop gone, that's a different strategy than throwing it all in the bin and waiting till next spring. So does crop marketing, does it come up in, in your, in your world, in, in farmer coach, you know, maverick? Like, is it something that people look at and are trying to gain an edge out there or, you know, themes pop up or like, oh yeah, this group over here is dialed in. Like those guys got it figured out. We gotta see what they're doing.
[00:31:34] Speaker B: I'll give you two stories. So the first story was probably my, let's call it my show showing how young I was in the industry back in 2019 is we'd done projections for guys for two or three years and I'd never thought of asking the question, did you actually give our info to the marketer?
So we were doing cost of productions. I was nailing it down per commodity. I knew their break evens. I, we had the months they had to sell into with an 18 month cash flow. Like we had all the information.
I just didn't close the loop. So then I got a call one night from a marketer and he says, hey, do you have this info for this client? I know you work with them. And I said, you mean you don't have the projection in front of you? No, he never, he's never, never given it to me. I said I've, I've got everything that I know you're looking for for the last three, three years.
[00:32:22] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:23] Speaker B: So I think that was the one, the one story of I just, I never closed the loop, to be honest.
[00:32:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:28] Speaker B: The other one is I, I also think marketing is probably the most underutilized skill set in egg. And, and I'll, and I'll throw that one out right away because I got lots of farms that are real good at growing grain. I mean, grandpa taught them, dad taught them. They, they grew up growing grain sitting in cabs. Like you said, agronomy doesn't seem to be the, the low hanging Fruit anymore.
I think it's the marketing side that has skipped. You might blame the wheat board for that. You can put it in a different place, right?
[00:32:55] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:32:56] Speaker B: And I think some guys just are uncomfortable. It's a skill set they were never taught.
Which, much like the financial side that I find is, guys don't even like talking about it because they just. They never were exposed to it enough to be comfortable. So I think marketing was just seen as, you know, the wheat board did it, and then all of a sudden when it was gone, it was, well, we're just going to sell when we need to for cash. And.
And now we're in an industry that's so volatile that it's probably the number one skill. I try to get guys to go and get education in because a farmer coach. Yeah, we talk about it, but again, I'm not a marketer and I'm not the guy to teach you how to do it. I just know it's important. We'll have those conversations, but they need to get way beyond our course and start getting more educated.
[00:33:36] Speaker A: It's not hard to find, but it's also not easy to find in a way either. You know, like, it's. It takes time and energy and. And honestly, my crop marketing books, they'll put me to sleep most nights. Right. Like, I get one chapter done. I'm like, perfect, I'm going to sleep good now. So.
Yeah. And I get to do it every day. Do you see or have you seen in the past? Maybe this is M and P type question, but like a gap where consistently strong crop marketers are in A level. And then you could see, like, weakness. Like, does that present itself at all in the data or not? Not that you could pinpoint.
[00:34:09] Speaker B: Yeah. M and P has the data. I know they do. And I don't want to. I don't want to quote the number, but I know it's north of 50 bucks an acre between the farms that can market and the farms that can't. And, And I think, well, north of 50, it's pretty simple. When you look at, you know, neighbors and they're growing $100 an acre. Different difference on the top line. And it's not just production. I mean, we have the same fields. Yes, agronomy can be significantly different between farms, but I've got a lot of farms that are very competitive with each other on agronomy. But the marketing side shows. Shows the weaknesses.
[00:34:41] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:34:42] Speaker B: And the bigger one is. I mean, all you have to do is see how much grain gets sold in January, February, March. Because those are the months that the FCC lines are due. Which tells me that there was no pre marketing. There was no pre thought because now they're selling for cash. That's where I usually identify it is when are you selling and is it because you have a lot of credit
[00:35:02] Speaker A: that's due Richardson Pioneer in January.
[00:35:06] Speaker B: Oh yeah, I can name them.
[00:35:09] Speaker A: I follow the same. I'm like, okay guys, let's make sure this isn't in place because those are the worst phone calls to get. I need six figures, seven figures. I think I got. I need a million bucks in the next four weeks. I'm like, okay, I'm going to dance here, I guess. Because yeah.
Anyway, obviously growing more bushels is. Is huge. Right? That's a huge thing. But you know, crop marketing is. It's not one and done. It's every day. I get to do this every single day. And the markets. Worst thing for me is a sideways market. That's the worst thing going up or down.
There's participation. So. Yeah. Anyway, well.
[00:35:48] Speaker B: And that's the big thing for even our farm. I mean, Jeff, Jeff, our coo handles all the futures. I mean he worked at Vitera. He, he was the great marketing guy. Like perfect.
But when we start playing hedge positions that are as large as our farm, play some of them, none of us want to touch anybody other than Christian. Cause that's his money.
[00:36:04] Speaker A: Oh yeah, yeah. Fair enough.
[00:36:06] Speaker B: Then all of a sudden we're pulling him back in. Because on a year like this, those accounts can go up and down real fast. So it's, it's an interesting theory of whether you have it external marketing like yourself or you bring it internal or how do you build it. Right. And, and for us, I. We have the skill set internally. It just takes time.
[00:36:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:25] Speaker B: It's a full time job.
[00:36:26] Speaker A: Yeah. And they prioritized in their schedules, in their days, weeks and the way you go. Right. So cool.
I. I'm gonna ask a loaded question anyway because I'm curious what the answer. I'm pretty open. So do you find your growers are working with. I don't want to pick on grain buyers. I was grain buyer. They're fantastic people. Are they dealing directly with the local buyer in Colonzi or are they going up? Are they dealing direct at that next level or even that merchandise level?
[00:36:54] Speaker B: I would say it's a mix of both. I mean we still have the like there's a significant amount of farms that are probably never going to get past that. That buyer. Right.
[00:37:02] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:37:02] Speaker B: And then when scale comes. And, I mean, everybody hates the consolidation talk and the scale talk, but that's. That's one of the benefits of having it is scale allows you to go up the chain and, and that might not just be with your elevator, that can be with your bank, that can be with your retail. Like, it gets you into rooms that if you don't have the scale, you don't get into. So for me to say no on your loaded question would be a lie. I got guys who can deal with some of the higher ups, and it, it just, it helps them get margin, so it ties back into that.
Do I love that family farms are starting to become unsustainable? No. I wish they would grow. I wish they'd be able to. I wish we could get everybody at that level.
But there is an advantage to being large, and one of it is you get into rooms that nobody else can, and you get those margins much quicker than others.
[00:37:50] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. No, I appreciate you answering that one and giving some.
Some color because it's always. Yeah, it's just an interesting space. Interesting spot in the space. So cool. All right, man. Well, I'm basically out of questions. Am I missing anything? Did we miss any. Any projects? I. I do want to add at the end here, the, the one thing that I really respect and admire about you is your openness, talking about your family life, you know, talking about your kids and your, Your challenges, your successes. But, uh, I'm, I, I try to do that and live that as well, openly on my side. But I do appreciate. Just want to say that that's one thing that really stands out, that I admire. But what you're putting out for info, context, like. Yeah.
[00:38:34] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I've. I've been pretty open, Ryan, to be honest. It. It's a big part of my life. I mean, most people that don't know the story. I've got two young boys with autism that, that were pretty much the reason I'm in the position I'm in today. And what I mean by that is we were 2010, I thought I was going to be a farmer the rest of my Life. And by 2014, I was back in the city using services I didn't think I'd need. And, And. And now I'm here and I'm happy where I am. I mean, I'm better at the business of farming than I ever was at actually being a farmer. So for me, I don't have any regrets. And for the kids, this is the best place for them. And, and whatever I can do on the advocacy side, that, that's kind of where most of that started. Where he kind of became vocal was I, I saw my, my platform, if you could call it that, as a way to get the voice out. So yeah, that's what I do.
[00:39:21] Speaker A: That's awesome, man. Well, appreciate it. Thanks for coming on the show this week and yeah, I look forward to, to connecting and have a, have a great 2026 on the farm.
[00:39:28] Speaker B: Hey, you bet you, sir. Thank you.
[00:39:34] Speaker A: Of course, our great program here. Well, we couldn't put it out without help from our sponsors. Of course. John Deere Operations Center, a key instrument, a key tool, a key part of keeping us on task here for the 2026 growing season. John Deere Operations center, we spent a lot of time in it in the month of April getting organized and ready to go. But now it's action time. So look forward to reviewing that data and yeah, doing some analysis and figuring out for, for future years. You can talk to your local John Deere dealership or get more details@deere ca. Thinking back to that interview now, it's been a couple days. We're gonna have to do a part two because I, as I look back at some of the answers there could be, I should have dug a little deeper on some of the initial questions that I put out there. I'm very, very curious about the crop marketing decisions when you get all that data in front of you. You know, Evan quantifying, quantified it with a number. But can we dive a little deeper into that? Right? Just scratch a little deeper into that. So I guess we'll have them on again in the future so we can dive, dive a little further into that. All right, folks, well, again, shout out to to all of our great partners. Another one being Brett Young. Got my Brett Young shirt on here today. Brett Young canola seed has landed on the farm. You know, Mother nature just needs to do her thing so we can get out there and get planting in a timely fashion. Yeah, I'm on holidays this week, guys. I hope you enjoyed this week's episode. If you did, please share it with a friend, neighbor, colleague, of course. Go hit that subscribe button on YouTube or wherever you listen to your podcast. And if you have any, I don't know, maybe you want to give me some perspective on what's next for the what the Futures podcast. What guest should we try to reign in here? What topic should we cover? Send those emails to Ryan. What the Futures Podcast Ca Also, big thank you. Brian Como hosted cup of coffee earlier this week. He's going to do it again next week, folks. Give him a round of applause.
Let him know that you, you're appreciating his efforts out there. Show him some love again. That's Brian from Ireland. Como lafoy, icl. They do a great job covering Canadian egg markets. All right, folks, for the what the Futures podcast, my name is Ryan and I'm out of here.
